Ep 179 - Beyond the footy field: Leading women’s wellbeing in high-performance environments with Morgan Te Oka

What does it really take to lead with care and integrity inside high-performance environments?
In this episode of Get Jasched, Jess is joined by Morgan Te Oka, a wellbeing professional working with women in NRL teams, to explore what true leadership and wellbeing look like behind the scenes of elite sport.
Together they discuss:
The invisible load women carry in high-performance systems
How leadership culture shapes wellbeing outcomes
The power of advocacy, boundaries, and clear communication
What workplaces can learn from sport about sustainable performance and care
This conversation brings heart, honesty, and real-world wisdom — reminding us that wellbeing and performance are not opposites, but deeply connected.
🎧 Listen now to uncover how leadership grounded in humanity creates stronger, more resilient teams — on and off the field.

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Got a thought or story to share? Reach out via Instagram at @j_.leigh , on LinkedIn at Jess Jasch, or https://j-leigh.com.au/ - I’d love to hear from you!

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Transcript

 hey, everyone, welcome to another episode of get jasched today. i'm really excited to have with us my friend and my study mate, morgan tioka. morgan is well-being and education practitioner, a mental skills coach and the founder of align me performance, and does a lot of workin the space of women's elite sports.So I'm really excited to dive into this conversation today, because there's so much that we get to cover and that we might not even get to.So thanks for joining us.Oh, thanks for having me.I love what you do and love our study partners.So it's great.No, happy to jump on board,yay. so we'll dive right into like the real question. um, because you do a lot of work in women's sports and we've had conversations for various reasons about, um, the unique uh challenges that women in elite sports face, um, especially in in terms of well-being. soWhat are some of those unique challenges that women face working within or alongside very male-dominated teams like the NRL?Yeah, it's a great question and I think it's something that sits as an underlying topic in women's sport currently and probably will for the next 5 to ten years,But I guess at the moment the most noticeable part is, we see, I guess, the repercussions ofa system that's not designed for womenAnd because there's no current best practice or really clear evidence based framework to hold on, there's not a lot of women within those decision making areas.We just see these flow on effects of a system that was designedfor the male um team, which is great, you know, it's a great system for them, um and societal like based on society. we've never been able to advocate for what we need because we've never been in the position,as a professional athlete for a long period of time, where we understand what our needs look like. if you look at from all the studies just coming out around menstrual cycle support and understanding our own hormonal needs and where we come from in society, we're just seeing the starting point of understanding that what currently is there in the system isn't working. and so it's this sort of mixedsituation at the moment where everyone is so excited because of the growth in women's professional sport but at the same time there's this sort of offness about the environments that all the women are coming through their seasons and they're going something's, something's just not right. you know i some, i sort of don't feel safe, or um, i feel like i'm not valued, or, uh, i feel like i'm coming back too early from injury andwe can only go off the studies that have been produced. and what we don't utilize well yet is our players lived experience. and so, in the well-being space, what's happening is we're in systems that aren't designed for our women, and so there's a lot of factors that are at play that are causing them to have poor experiences.And on the flip side of that, our women also know no better.You know, there is nothing to teach them that there is a way or a better understanding of what a system might look like for them.So it's sort of this 2pronged approach where we look over the fence at what the men have, and we want that because we've never been able to close our eyes and figure out what a great design for us might look like.And soThere's going to be so many niggling wellbeing issues across women's sport until we really start to utilise our athletes' lived experience as we create these environments for them.Yeah, because it's such an almost brand new, almost like a brand new approachBecause, like you said, you can look over the fence at the men's and go: oh cool, like that works for them, which is great.But, you know, applied to a women's environment with different, literally different cycles, in a day like not just in a month but literally in a day,It makes it hard. but also wellbeing- I mean we've spoken about this in different areas like wellbeing is one of those challenging areas where it is yet to be seen as fundamental to wellbeing.the resilience building and the success building of any team environment is so fundamental to it and we're learning more and more. but if we don't have, you know, i imagine a lot of those studies are mostly done on men's teams as well. so like, if we don't have umthe proof, then it is a leap of faith to take into account lived experience. but we also do need to take into account lived experience, regardless of you know like it sort of needs to be. it needs to be both, yeah, exactly, and even you know just off what you're saying, the, the,because we know, no better yet and everyone's starting to understand, you know, they think it's a secret sauce, which is, um, I guess, once you know, once you get into well-being and you really understand it, it's just a beautiful way of living that helps generate energy for yourself and the people around you. you know it's not. it's not something that's, um,a secret, incredible underlying fix.You know it's in our daily actions.And a beautiful part of that is that it impacts performance in a positive light and it enables performance behaviours.It enables, like you said, resilience,It enables discipline,It enables optimism. you know, in face of a really challenging time which, for athletes like you're constantly managing challenge,Like your entiretimeline in a journey of an athlete- is around adversity and that we don't build. build environments that, um, create a lot of self-awareness around the adversity part. you know, we build this vision and this beautiful like while we're functioning well and winning. look how, if we hit these standards, you know we'll perform well and if we have these behaviors, we'll be perform well. and it's like well.Well being enables performance, but it's measured when you're not doing well.So it's sort of like if clubs, if sporting systems, if athletes aren't understanding that this is a huge community approach,they're going to miss out on the beauty of leaving people with good, healthy, amazing sporting experiencesand they're just going to focus on these short-term outcomes of winning seasons. you know- and yeah, that's my, i guess, purpose at the moment is we see too many people leave these sporting, elite sporting, professional sporting journeys, and they're the the top percent of you know their cohort with with a poor experience andThat you don't have to give people, that you don't have to provide people with that just because you're chasing this mastery level.You know there are better ways and it's trying to shift the narrative which I've come to terms with. now that it's like that, it's like you know, it's going to be like aMy entire lifetime of working within women's sport, I have to be okay that turning the dial is just going to be probably the slowest thing I'll ever see.I may see fruition from it,I may see effects of it,But you know, I just think that if weWe are doing people a disservice when we aren't human-centered and allowing people to lead these journeys with good experiences-And I think that's an issue in women's sport in general is, when you get to the professional level, it's this: do or die,You're either on the top pinnacle of the world or you're dropping off that,And it doesn't have to be that way.Yeah.So I don't even know if I answered your question.No, but it was so, I don't know either. but it was so good because, like you're, you're right thoughIt's, it's. it's still so, measured against one metric only, rather than the whole entire experience.And- and this can impactyou know- parents' willingness to get their kids involved in sport. if they continually only see- and this is across men's and women's- if they continually only see, like the burnout or the mental health issues that happens once athletes retire,And because there's not that ongoing awareness of what wellbeing really is beyond just how are you performing? you know, like, and that is such a key part of it.ButYeah, it can impact the entire field of sports and the perception of sports, people and athletes and what that does for a person and what kind of person that produces as well.So it is in so much need of,think, like a re-education experience.I also wonder, I wanted to ask, and you may not be able to say too much about this? I'm not sure. but do you think that the impact of the difference in pay parity for women in elite sports would impact their wellbeing as well?Because many of the women like watchingthe grand final where both of my Broncos teams won. but, like you know, knowing of- I don't know them personally, but knowing of some of the players in the women's Broncos team, knowing that they have full-time, like full-time careers in defense, or, you know, like full-time jobs to help them, you know. but that's a lot ofpressure, that's a lot of, yeah, energy and time and focus and financial stability in women's sport is a really funny thing. because there's, like I said, like there's just all of these underlying narratives, um, that hold space in in and around the game as it grows, andrugby league are quite progressive at the moment in comparison to other women's sports. but what is hard, I think, for the public eye to distinguish between when they look at the system, they go: oh well, they're getting paid more than what they used to. it's really understanding that, um,Our women are being asked to produce high performance outcomes weekly on the football field.They are asking to put their body on the line and to produce these high pressure, high, fast paced performances with only half of the support resources funding,AndA lot of them can't hold full-time jobs anymore, even if they were on a career trajectory, because the companies can't afford to let their staff go for 6 months of the year and then rehire them full-time and then adjust the entire timeorganization to suit these athletes. you know so there are a lot of our girls who are working casually, part-time, and there's a lot of um. this is where sporting agents have a opportunity to be incredibly strong in their care and integrity for their players, but at the moment it's not there where they could help educate our players on the financial changes that are,Because our girls sometimes are really new to the fact that they're signing a contract that includes tax.It includes super.None of it's taken out of the equation.And if they've got another income, obviously you know you only get that tax free threshold.So when you're a young 19 year old, you're signing your first contract.There is this really misconception of thatI'm going to be OK and stable,But the truth is they're living off less than minimum wage, trying to manage through these high performance outcomes, trying to travel to and fro to trainings 4 times a week, live up to these high standards and then rock up and work successfully on the side.And it's,It's going to grow.They will go full-time in the future.It is comingWhen that's coming. I'm not too sure just in the way the collective bargaining agreement works within the NRL. buti think the women have 2 perspectives. they can sort of support them in this journey. 1: they are in a really strong position where they're not letting go of their second career. right, they haven't they, they're not letting go of that yet. so there's this beauty in that, because obviously we see a lot of our men come out of the system. they have poor mental health, they have no qualifications,They get on to a low salary,They can't afford to take care of their family.Like there's all of these repercussions for not aligning themselves to another opportunity. where our women are in a position where they're still seeking other opportunities because they have to.And so when they're leaving the game they're actually in a really greatposition because they can pick up work quite quickly. they still have employees, they're skilled exactly, and so it's sort of like push for full-time professionalism, push for what you you need to perform at the level they're asking you to perform at. but don't lose sight of the strengths that you have right now in the system, because we don't want to copyand have the same negative repercussions we can see within the male game. we want to learn from that and it's just exposing them to this narrative consistently which at the moment, like no, no clubs, unless an athlete comes into the system, has semi-awareness, good role models around them and then is proactive, no one's really genuinely consistently educating them onon the change of perspective. they'll go. oh, you can have a you know, alternate job. or we recommend you do no work, no study, no play, like we recommend. you have a second thing, but they're like I've just worked my ass off to get here. yeah, I don't. I don't want a second thing like: yeah, I want to commit to my craft, I want to commit to being an elite athlete, so it's not about you.um, you can't use that story anymore. i think we need to change the narrative so they see it as a strength that enables their performance. yeah, uh, which i don't think is sold well yet, yeah, that makes a lot of sense, and and and almost like finding, and it won't work in every industry, obviously, but finding finding options that worksaround, like specifically for athletes around their seasons as well, where they can upskill in the off season or study a bit easier in the off season, pause during the season and then come, you know, like something like that,And I know thatyou know some certain industries might listen to that and go like: wow, we have to do everything it's like well, no, but it's also just this. it's like well, where do you feel like you could offer that? or who do you feel like could offer that? that gives it an option and and that can work for for a lot of you know a lot of on on both sides, in a lot of ways. if it was just you,Well well thought out.Well, you look like sporting. female sporting athletes are more inclined to end up in the C-suite.They're more inclined to end up as a CEO and the executives and boards because they're good collaborators.They're usually quite assertive,They're confident in their ability, like all of these skills,You know. so there's this inactive period at the moment within the NRLW where there's such a missed opportunity.Any club could help their athletes really upskill in that space,But at the momentIt's not even that they think of it and it's not happening.They're just like it's inactive period.The guidelines say that they're not. you know, we check in on them, we make sure they're okay, but they're technically not our problem.So I won't see them untilapril. i won't see them until march, until we need to start training them again. it's just this really missed. and like. i keep going back to this lack of intentional design of the system, using like experience to create something that's sustainable. yeah, yeah, i like your approach, also like we can look at what we can learn from what's already been done with the men's, because it is it would be easy, and i do italmost like on behalf of women's sports.So I'm like that's not fair,But like it would be easy to be like, well, they get all this?It's like okay,And some of that works and some of that doesn't work.So how can we intentionally create a system over here, learning from that, but also still, you know, making it unique to to this environment and to these people and the people involved in this environment?Yeah, exactly.And you mentioned sort of like the care and the check-ins and the- oh, you know, we don't technically have to check in with them until March when you know- and to sort of switch gears a little bit. what would you say? the difference is between just sort of like performing care and embodying care as a leader in these environments.I think it just shows you someone who's human-centred in their approach and who practices what they preach, which is really hard to find within the elite sporting system, and someone who just dictates, guides and teachespresent strategies like a bit of a box tick- and I guess they're the two right. someone who genuinely will, like we understand care is important, we'll give you the tools and strategies and resources, but then it's up to you. and then there's someone who goes. I see value in this. I know they won't listen to me unless I practice what I preach andI will walk beside you and support you and make you understand that you as a person come first.And there are coaching philosophies. you know some great coaches out there.Ivan Cleary is a classic because his entire book embodies a care-based approach to his athletes and his people.And he even talks about his errors and mistakes and his vulnerabilities, and that just show you how much he is human-centred in his approach.And that in itself is sort of the dictator of our environment.So our leader actually comes from usually the male head coach or the head of NRL or the head of football,AndIt's a super inconsistent space on role models who embody care and then show a human-centred approach and a wellbeing-based approach with their people and those who embody performance firstAnd then, when things go wrong, if you need us, we will care for you.And so there's always that reactive approach which is obviously the most common denominator. you know-And I guess, like Ivan's philosophy is sometimes seen as like I said, like the secret sauce- that they're like oh, like, yeah, but he's got this or he's got that.Actually he's justFrom what I've read. I don't know him personally, but from what I've read, you know he embodies values.His actions consistently over long periods of time demonstrate care. first.He ensures well-being is in the schedule, which is one of the polar differences between a football system or a sporting system that embodies care and a football system that has performance than care,Yeah,And that that's like the number one measure, because we know that people that care put time and resources into itRight.And so when we see him put time and resources in the schedule for wellbeing specific practices, you know straight away this guy sees wellbeing as a absolute, essential factor to performance and support for their athletes. and someone who doesn't, it'sthe sixth or seventh priority and it's there as a service that sits as a bolt on, just in case people fall off their perch and manage a a major challenge of some description. sointegrated, reactive, lack and, and to be honest, it's like ninety, five percent, five percent, yeah. I think like. it makes me think of all of the sort of people I can think of, like industry, non-specific, right, but all of the people I can think of who maybe look up to or idolize or, you know, like, admire, certain leaders like Ivan Cleary and and other people with like, oh my god, he's just got this special sourceAnd then they kind of put it over here where it's like, oh, he's got that or they've got that.Yeah,And then they just keep doing what they're doing and just admire.But it doesn't actually like. it doesn't actually change how peoplethey might be behaving, or their own leadership styles or their own proactiveness in it rather than reactive.And it's and it's like. you know, at some point it's a decision like it's like. it's so good to admire and and and it-And you don't need to sort of it- won't be flicking a switch and immediately being in that same mode.But at some point it is a decision.It's not just oh, he's got that special sauce.So that's something for him or for them, not for me as a leader.And it's such an interesting thing to watch sort of happen where people don't really make that decision for themselves and their own leadership.Definitely.And in his story one of the clear factors is he evolved his philosophy over a period of time.But then, once he was able to evolve it with his own leadership, who believed in his long-term sustainability, he was then able to produce a system that supported the athlete from a young development into the elite athlete and stay with him over that period of time allowed him to take risks, allowed him to failand keep supporting him through that process,And it just shows again the leadership for him also are at play.And you know it's in performance where coaches can look over at a system and go: yeah, but look at the players he has,And it goes okay well-being –when all is equal, will give you the nudgeIn regards to on-field performance. that deep cohesion, that deep communication, that understanding your teammate, the trust to the core, like all of those aspects, they're the things that enable. when everything is equal on game day, and all the factors are going both of your way, and you know it'sWell being in mental skills and those proactive skills that are in the schedule. they're the things that can pull you to that next level.But then, off field, success also, like I said, is leaving people with good experiences, being human, centered in the environment,And that's something that every leader can do. that does not cost them money,It doesn't have to cost money,It doesn'tRelational like. we know that relational energy is the most untapped resource within any organisation and it is the most overlooked resource that can literally change how your people function.And I just think in elite sport they just sit blindLike they justThere's so many people in the system only knowing what they've always been in, so they don't look to change a thing,This really lack of innovation, because they're too fearful of losing their jersey and losing their logo.Yeah,that they're not willing to go. maybe we can try different things in the best interest of our people. it's like it's it's the staff, it's the middle man within organizations that could be the game changers for our women, uh, and for our men, but taking risks is just too scary for them.Well, that's actually that leads on to the next part. very, very well, because how do you communicate well-being needs to or between players and coaches and leadership teams?Oh well, I can tell you specifically, I can tell you my, you know, my absolute failures that I learned at the start was, I guess the first thing I learned is no one, no one cares about wellbeing as a proactive enabler.No one.This is in twenty twenty three.Yeah,Yes,Twenty twenty twenty twenty, about twenty twenty two, twenty twenty threeNo one cares.And what I mean by that is: no one is willing to put the time and resources into show that they care.So they will all say that they care, but the action doesn't follow.And it's not just my personal experience of clubs.It was across all clubs that this was a quite constant occurrence, because all of thebeautiful, hard-working, well-being officers would come to the table and go like: I don't know what's happening, you know, and the constant narrative that we would get sold back to us was like keep grinding away girls. you know you'll get there eventually and we're like: I'm sorry, do you realize the word grind doesn't work with well-being?I think so,Like. I'm not sitting in this system just to wear the polo shirt knocking on the door, half being considered as a priority within the system.Like you, either invest- you got me in here,invest in this space- or don't have it, because at the moment you aren't doing it a disservice. and so when it comes to communicating the well-being needs, it was the players, which is funny enough. most of my studies are moving towards that inside out, where the players are my focus. andbut it was the players seeing value in the little extra optional things we were adding into our system. obviously they got to opt into it. you know it wasn't in the schedule. so we had, like our performance staff over here and they were like: no, we sort of don't really care what you're doing like if you can fit it in other time, whatever, right, right,Yeah. so we were just fitted in and the captain and a few of the other girls in the leadership group, like they, really started to value it because one they had diverse cultures.Family was a huge value of a lot of these girls.We had a lot of relocators and they all started to really connect deeply through some of the activities we were doing.You know, a beautiful comment they made the year I'd left wasThey said: you know we wouldn't have done as well as we did.They made the grand final the year after I left,There was a few of the girls that said we wouldn't have done as well as we did if it wasn't for the work that you did with us, because we love each other so much,We care about each other so much.And then they were just welcoming people in with open arms.And you know there's still obviouslylittle dynamic issues throughout the season.But that was that intentional time given to them to understand who they were to their core, what their purpose was in the environment, and just keep adding in these sliding door activities of deep connection, good communication skills.And the girls started to advocate for themselves.And so before I left, you know we had created a list of these are the things we need to function well.These are the solutions and these are the costs of these solutions.And we took them to our general manager of footballAnd once we were able to articulate the needs, justify the needs, present solutions to support the needs and show the funding that would be required or the support that was required, he was like: yeah,Is that okay?Yeah,Is that what you need?All right, we'll make it happen.But it's not that, Yeah, and it was great.We had some really good people in and around the system, but they weren't intentionally designing the system,They weren't caring deeplyWe had.we have a lot of men within our system who are just coming across from the male game because they have experience rightLike no women have experience in the game.So how do they get their foot in the door?It was sort of like we have men from the male system.They understand how football works.Let's get them in,Let's build out the women's program,Let's move forward,AndI understand the logical, operational understanding behind that.But at the same time, you know it had to take for their captains, their people, to after the season to articulate solutions they needed for wellbeing, change and then to go come to the table.And if our girls weren't such good advocates,we wouldn't have had change. they would have just cycled through um. and since i left, you know they've reached out a few times, just been like there's still niggles, there's still all these challenges and barriers because there's still a lack of intentional design.hmm, and it sounds like it comes back to lived experience again, like, because it's really well-being and women's in this level of women's sports really is at the grassroots level still so it's like: how do you start? it's like all right. well, you listen, you, you give them a voice, you, you, if you need to, you teach them how to advocate, how to communicate, how toyou know. you can't tell them what they need necessarily, but you can teach them how to express and share what that experience is, to then help them along.And that is the lived experience.Yeah, definitely,I think one of the biggest current challenges within and across women's sport is still that psychological unsafe practice.I think that'sstill quite. it's quite damaging and challenging, and it's still very much there across all women's sport, and it's just not regarded as a issue because it's been a part of the men's elite professional sporting system, where unsafe psychological- sorry, psychological- unsafe practice is seen as like a domineering way of coaching, and soI would almost argue that it's an issue in the men's side as well.No, that's exactly what I'm saying.Like. they think it's normal.So you know even women who have? you know some of our greatest players who have grown up in the male system? you know they look at the female space and when a girl addresses something that's made them feel unsafe, you knowthey're like toughen up mate like, because you know, they know no better, like they've been conditioned by this environment that's been so dominant, with that authoritarian culture that, um, you know, hit the standard, or you don't belong, you know. and it's the polar opposite to belonging. it's a polar opposite to the mastery and team building, and so it's just. um, it's still there, it's still heavy, it's deep in the system, but our women are becoming stronger atconstantly addressing these issues every year. they're getting better.they shouldn't have to, yeah, but if, if, if they're not the drivers, if they're not in the driver's seat of the change, you know, they're just going to be waiting for policy change. so yeah, um, yeah, like, it's still heavily there and it's still not great. um, if i could like have a little one to like, just like pluck out any of those staff who don't want to be educated, i'd be likeYou know, because it's not about not knowing, it's about not wanting to know, which is the most damaging.Yeah,It's crazy.And when they're like, oh, I know what I'm doing, you're like whoa.Okay,Yeah, no, you know, I feel you on this one as well.It's like you can be really, really good at what you do and what you know, and yeah,there is so much that we're learning like, not just individually but like the. the field of wellbeing is learning that is so important.That does change the game, in your case, literally like. it does change and it can change, but you've got to be willing to hear it rather than, well, we've just done it this way all the time. yetYou know, we know that men's mental health isa huge issue, right, and it's, and it's not exclusive to just normal non-athlete people, right, it's it's like, oh yeah, we see it in male athletes, we see it in, all of you know. so why would we keep doing it that way? why wouldn't we want to learn a possibility of of improving it, even if it's different to what we, what we might already know?Yeah, I mean, one of the best statements I heard was from Dr Pippa Grange, and she was at the AFL.She oversaw the AFL psychology referral network and then she went over.She's currently working in the English Premier Football League.She oversees all of the psychologysupport, um and the proactive programs over there, and she has this great book called fear less, and she made this statement and she said: when we see sport, fear is a lazy tool to get people to do what you want.and she said you can only learn out of 2 ways: you learn out of fear or positive reinforcement, and that is it. and it just it, like cut everything like a knife. and i was like, oh yeah, guys, like, surely, surely people are hearing what i'm hearing, but you know, yes, we can be informed in like ten minutes on on what amazing team leadership practice looks like, but it's just not done like it's just not done, and sogoing to be an exhausting space but you just think to yourself like if we don't do it yeah it'sif we don't keep like the best thing is meeting people you know like yourself like other change makers who are like you know what I'm just gonna keep going because I do have sisters around me who are trying to do the same thing as as much as this is going to be the biggest grind of our entire lives like trying to trudge up a mud hill that's like sliding back yeah it's just likeSo you know what, we'll be okay.Yeah.And we've had this conversation, right?Where it's like this, I remember saying to you where I'm like, it's kind of this surrender moment of, oh, I may not see the full change that I want to see in literally in my lifetime, in my work, like, you know, in a very specific area.And it's like, oh, I may not see that change.I may not see a wellbeing reform in areas of defense in my lifetime, because these are suchembedded institutions.And at some point there's like a surrender that then allows us just to keep going and go, all right, well, it's, it, it might just be about a version of legacy where it's a, can I help start to move that wheel of change that makes it easier for the next person and the next person and the next person.Andnothing, no change happens in an instant.It always happens from conversations that have started long ago anyway.So it's like, all right, maybe I get to just contribute and just do what I can and keep that vision.Cause you know, it'd be nice, but like, yeah, just this is what I can do.And this is what I can hope for, but also for my own wellbeing and mental health.being okay with whatever i can achieve while still wanting something bigger yeah how do you look after your own well-being while you're supporting this it's a great question it's actually why i left the game um it's actually why i left the game you know it's so interesting um obviously we areseen as a part-time program so there's only maybe 2 full-time staff uh within uh i think it's more more now but when i was there it was um 2 full-time staff to oversee the entire nrw program and um i relocated to do the role uh when i was i was down in sydney and i felt like a hypocrite you know i i was going out every single day and i was umpreaching well-being practice uh preaching all of these proactive ways to take care of yourself to understand how to balance your energy um how to meet your own needs um supporting our women and i had no boundaries you know no boundaries um support network was all back in queensland umworking like just stupid hours you know wake up in the morning and and be taking messages and calls from 7 a.m and then leaving training that night at 839 p.m at night and that was my life for 2 years and it was just work like all work um and I was like you know what I'm gonna go see a psychologist I really want to you know utilize the services andI'm, you know, at the time I was so ignorant.I was like, oh, unpack me.And I just, you know, I just was so like.Whatever gets us started.Yeah.I was like, I want to know, like, what my attachments sound like.Anyway, it was one of those, like, employment ones.So, you know, they only touch on, like, one topic.Like, they don't, like, delve into your past trauma.Because I was like, okay, what are we talking about?Like, my previous relationship.I need to talk about my parents.Let's go.and um and she was like what's going on for you right now and so i explained obviously work like i just explained work i i was training i was playing a little bit of rugby sevens on the side but a lot of the girls were a lot younger than me and i was like why am i holding on to something that uh you know just for the sake of having something good in my life that um which is enough of a reason by the way but yeah yeahyeah oh I loved it like absolutely loved it really cool um group of people I got to play with too made some great mates but um we'll see there and I just like I feel off you know I feel like I'm not practicing what I preach and I'm so big on integrity so trying to tell people how to support themselves and you know I was eating well I was sleeping well nutrition was great ummost of my work relationships were generally good but obviously you're walking to a space where you know the underlying mental mode underlying um narrative is the women's game is second tier like it's not important and so managing those sliding door language and comments every day whoa like that just beat me down so much like I was so hard and so long as wellYeah, and they just had no idea.Like, there actually weren't bad people across the game, but they just had no idea that they were so male dominant.Like, they had no understanding that they weren't showing, you know, equality in their language and understanding.And it was all this like that you'll be right sort of narrative.And so, yeah, the psychologist said, I know you don't need my permission, but she turned around to me and said, you have permission to go home.Like you don't need to do this.You have permission.And I just bawled my eyes out because I'm like, I'm in my dream job, aren't I?I'm doing wellbeing education for incredible elite athletes within women's sport.It's a growing space.We just won the proposal.It's my first ever season in the NRLW.Like I should be thriving on my job.You know, when people would hear that I was a wellbeing education officer within an elite sporting team, they're like, oh, that's so cool.Like the big deal.Yeah.Yeah, and, you know, I was burnt out to the bone.And so, yeah, I just, I made the call.I was like, my support network's up here.My number one value is my family.I'm not close to them.I've got siblings.I've got a niece and nephew.um i didn't have a lot of friends i didn't have a lot of time for friends in sydney they were all up here so even my social network i didn't have a partner so i just was like you know what all of this outside of work part of my life is just completely falling to the wayside because i'm devoting myself to a cause and at the cost of my own my own living so yeah came home andHonestly, I have been even, you know, the beautiful girls I worked with, they were like, you just look so happy.And I said, I am just a different human.I am calm.I feel calmness in my life.I feel a lot more love, a lot more support, that real grounded, secured feeling.You have such community too, like just watching, you know, the things you share is just like so much community that just, you know,You can feel just vicariously almost just looking at how you share things.And I know social media is just what it is.But, you know, it's like, oh, I didn't know you really before you were living on the Gold Coast, like back in Queensland.But it's like, well, I can feel that you have such a strong sense of community.yeah like being a teacher up here being so connected to young students um good gym mates you know my you know Brene Brown's like like my marble jar people I've only got 5 of them they are the best humans in the world to me they we align in our about a lot of our values um and just being closer to them you know my circle's not big it's not big for a reason andI just adore connection and closeness.So that's all I really needed.I didn't need anything big and grand.I just needed to come back to my people and live within my values and understand that my value comes with me.You know, I think that was my biggest shift wasi left a job that i had worked so hard to get and i'd studied for and then at what cost and i i lost integrity because i was being okay with the bare minimum you know i was being okay with being burnt out and giving myself to an environment that wasn't investing in what i was passionate about yeah and so the message i was saying was this environment's okay and it was not okayAnd so probably the scariest thing was resigning and pulling back, but also the most liberating piece as well because, you know, I'd moved my entire life down there to create this meaningful change.And at the end of the day, I chose me like I was like, you know, you did create meaningful change.Yeah.Yeah.And luckily, you know, luckily, thanks to my relationships and constantly just trying to like present my values in my work, I was able to find an opportunity up here.I am back in the game.but I'm back in the game 5 minutes from home and you know, working Monday to Friday I'm not travelling with teams anymore and I've got this beautiful work-life balance.I just had to deal with the insecurity and discomfort of change.Yeah,Yeah,yeah, and that can be some of the most daunting, most challenging, but, like I know, this isn't the whole reason, but you did mention, you know, like the, the underlying views or or how they spoke about the women's program, like it was just second tier and not important. it's like I. it makes me think about how many women must bebe in what they thought was their dream job, because they're like- yeah, I want to like- this is where I want to be and this is what I want to be doing- and creating this meaningful change- and are just getting burnt out by different variations ofmisogyny in a way you know like in a way, or just the lack of support that allows them to do those jobs really well.It's like the. I think it's the glass. I think it's the glass cliff.It's like when a company is not doing well and they fire the male CEO and then hire a female CEO into the struggling companyAnd it's like- that's the only time that we see it mostly publicly when that happens,And it's just like: why isn't she succeeding?And it's like: well, there's so many layers,But yeah, it's just one of those things. again,And it's funny. I look at some of the women in the game at the moment who I know have incredible integrity and they are just burning at both ends,Like they are doing triple jobs that are not their role.They are managing that and being mums and being away from home all the time.And I look at them and I go like:At what cost?Like at what cost? is this okay that you have to give this much of yourself to the system before the system values you?And it's so it makes me so wild like frustrated, because our girls deserve the best.These women are the best. you know Jess Skinner, classic example, one of the, you know, one of the best women within rugby league at the moment, who's currently a leading, Indigenous Australian Maori head coach of the Gillaroos.But the work this woman does like she does work way outside her scope.She is doing 5 roles for someone that's only employed to do one,And she's a mum and she has a beautiful community and caring family that she loves to be a part of.But you know her plus ten others just burning to the bone.And I just think to myself:It's your missed opportunity.It is the sport, the governing bodies.You are going to miss out on, these people who will create incredible change for you because you're not caring for them.Yeah,Yeah,It shouldn't have to requireperforming even more than one role, but you know like 3 or 5 different roles in order to be like with, with a lack of support, in order to be called successful. when you just yeah, like you said, you're just running up a muddy, trying to run up a muddy hill and just backwards, you're like: wow,where are the stairs?Where are the concrete stairs,Exactly?And so it's just I actually like my. that's why my brain goes.I think the only way forward is creating such a big, beautiful vision that you can do it on your own, in your own soul, trading way,And then people can want to buy into thatAnd once they decide that they want to be a part of that, that's when you can create that beautiful systemic change.ButYou know, by being in the system as a side person at what cost for you to create that change?That's been my experience in different ways as well.It's like: oh, this is why I do my work the way I do it, because, like, the system doesn't work for me,It just Yeah, and you can't afford to lose yourself because you are the change maker. and if you lose energy,What are you doing?You know we're hypocrites.Yeah.So I think that's it's the hardest thing to watch, because you see women with great integrity working so hard, but then you also go like at the cost of your own personal wellbeing, which isis not okay. yeah, exactly like not. not in a chronic level way, like you know, there might be moments because things will come up and you're like all right, we gotta double down that whatever. yes, like it, that shouldn't be the norm, that shouldn't be normalized, or just what isthat? literally every day, every week, every month, all year, you know, year upon year. that's not. that's not sustainable and it's not regenerative well-being either, exactly. and our women need to advocate for our women, our, yeah,Our young players. they, you know, I understand, as the game grows, the spotlight's on them and they say: I want to play at my best. so I want the best coaching.But it's also not okay for you not to be aware that as you grow, you must also grow the people around you.The staff deserve to grow too,And there's all of these incredible women support staff who have never been given opportunities because they don't have the experienceAnd you think to yourself: okay, well then, how are they going to get it?So if there aren't changes made, we're going to keep crying for more women to sit at decision-making tables, but we're not going to invest in them.And so there's this broken cycle, and it's so important that our young women, who are coming in as elite athletes, understand the entire cycle and not just their own narrow viewpoint of how they are,where they sit within it. because at the moment it's a really um and again, just another huge missed opportunity because we do not invest and support our female staff to the level that's neededto help advocate and create well-skilled, high, professional female sporting coaches and psychologists or physiotherapists within the sporting realm. so it's just such a a space where i think not only our staff but our players need to advocate for the entire female communityrather than just purely the athlete themselves. yeah, it needs to be more of that collectivist approach rather than the individualistic. this is what serves me. it's like, no, no, we are a rising tide together and that lifts all ships. and yeah, the only way it works. and yeah, yeah.And it feels scary because, again, we have all of these examples of you know the way it's historically been done, like in men's fields and things like that- where it's like, oh okay, well, like, that's how they've done it.Yeah,And it just doesn't work.That's the point.Yeah, exactly,Exactly,Learn like. learn from their mistakes, you know.So, anyway, it's a big.I could talk to you for like five million hours about this.We could. honestly,I'm just like a yapper, absolute yapper, when it comes to this stuff.So good,So all right.So, before we wrap it up, how can people get in contact with you?You've never really mentioned anything like this to me, but as someone who knows you, like Morgan, would be a great speaker at an event, or, you know, like anything like that as well.Genuinely, it's like, oh yeah, I can see that.So how can people get in contact with you,for whatever reason that might be, in relation to your work and what you do? yeah, well, i do have a instagram, which is terrible, because i am just not great at social media. yet i am getting better. this is, this is my new um 12 months of growing. as we finish our study, i'm like, okay, time to improve, but, and i'll include the links as well. but yep,Thank you.Yeah,Mainly honestly like direct message on LinkedIn.That's great.I'm on there really often,I'm quite active on there.Um, a lot of people, a lot of sporting teams have just engaged on LinkedIn and also my social media account align me. performance, uhYeah. so currently I've got 2 incredible athletes I work with:One's an 8yearold who's currently in the Aussie A-sevens program and then one's in the top Aussie sevens program,And they just personally reached out through family members because they knew I was doing some of the work.And then, yeah, I do workshops within schools.I do specialise with women just because obviously lived experience. that's what I can relate to a lot more.But I have done stuff across co-ed schools.And then just sporting teams is sort of you know, I've been consulted out to a lot of sporting teams from, you know, lucky enough with the Gillaroos Queensland Rugby League,to just help wellbeing, design wellbeing strategies for teams across, whether it's like a little tournament for a week, or they're trying to design a whole season.So I'm pretty open to that opportunity, you know, and networking and connecting.But I mean thanks honestly so much for this chat and opportunity.It like reinvigorates me completely talking about this stuff,And I know both of us have a day ahead of doing assignment work in this exact area.So I feel like it's maybe perfect timing as well of like. all right, we're alive,We got this.Yeah, exactly.Thank you so much for your time.I genuinely like. I love these conversations we get to have.So that's why I was like, let's record one.Yeah, honestly, any timeI'm going to try and get mine back up running once I get my new mic.I completely stuffed it when I moved back home from Sydney.But yeah, I would love to get you on that, because it's more around, I guess, young women going into schools and managing the life ofbeing a teenager and transition, and you know, helping parents out, and you know how can we help create safe spaces, brave spaces,Brave spaces,Brave spaces for our young females, as they just manage a really like toxicculture of heavy body shaming and social media where they struggle to show up authentically. so I'm trying to get that back up and running. so once I do, I would love you to jump online as well. I would love that amazing. thank you so much, no worries.